Astral plane - Vital world & Mental plane - Psychic-being

This is for discussion of general Astral Projection & Out-of-body Experiences related topics.
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Jettins \o/
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Astral plane - Vital world & Mental plane - Psychic-being

Post by Jettins \o/ » November 25th, 2013, 10:10 pm

Alfredo wrote:Since this is a direct quote from Sri Aurobindo, I can only surmise based on my knwoledge of his yoga. He was an occultist of the first order, and an adept to astral projections who helped defeat Hitler's possessor at the occult level.

Sri Aurobindo posited 2 different realms of worlds or planes, specifically separate, one being the "vital world", which is akin to the astral planes, the other being the "mental planes". He ambulated in both with ease.

Not everyone ascribes to this separation, and one that doesn't, for example, is the very Acharya Beloved, who bunches them both into different astral levels.

However, Belzebub (Pritchard) who wrote the book you gave me in my last visit to your house, like Sri Aurobindo, clearly delimits both the astral and the mental planes.

Thus...this subtle subliminal, for Sri Aurobindo, seems to be one that intermingles with the vital part of the being (pranic part, the life force) and the mental part of the being (mental world) without being specifically one or the other, but "merely" (and this is I think the key word to understant this quote) being aware of this parts, still retaining part of its physicality.

To understand this, it is important to know that Sri Aurobindo posited an entity akin to the core-self (Atma) of the Acharya, which is one self that evolves our individuality and he called the Psychic-Being, but there is a second self that is above and beyond the Atma, unaffected by this evolving entity but however of the same substance, aloof and yet supportive and guiding, which we call the Paramatma (para in Sanskrit meaning beyond). This was the subject of a post recently by the Acharya referring to 2 selves.

So, according to Sri Aurobindo, the entity that "reincarnates" is this Psychic-Being, that when ready for incarnation draws parts of new vital essence from the vital world, parts of new mental essence from the mental world, and parts of new physical essence from the material world, to now become a functional individual of flesh and blood.
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Astral plane - Vital world & Mental plane - Psychic-being

Post by Jettins \o/ » November 25th, 2013, 10:12 pm

Alfredo wrote:Sri Aurobindo posited 2 different realms of worlds or planes, specifically separate, one being the "vital world", which is akin to the astral planes, the other being the "mental planes". He ambulated in both with ease.

Not everyone ascribes to this separation, and one that doesn't, for example, is the very Acharya Beloved, who bunches them both into different astral levels.
I think its OK to create separations between the varying planes or states while attempting to explain the differences. Such as when talking about hot and cold, or light and dark, and when dividing by the fine dividing-line that breaks down into the infamous “like and dislike”, which is arbitrary at best. However, analogous to light and dark; a plane, as an observable point of being, is simply a temporary expression of itself as it fluctuates between more than one state or plane. Thus, one could say that an astral scenery (or vital plane) one finds oneself in is the result or something else, and that something else is not separate from the mental world (psychic-being). Then, one could say that the mental plane (or psychic plane to avoid upsetting some esoteric fundamentalists), as the driver, is more psychic than the astral plane, therefore the mental plane has "less susbstance" and is more illusionary by nature. Yet, the only real delimiter between the two being "degrees of separation".., how the thoughts (the mental), through the use of intuitive awareness, can influence the astral being, and then a higher perceptual awareness may become available. The Mental plane being in a position relative to the astral, and not inherently higher by definition.

When we think while in the astral dimension do we go to another plane? Yes and no. It would be Yes, if the point of awareness after being shifted is isolated, and it would be No, if we call the mental the annex of the astral body, it's anchor. The mental being the energetic substructure of the astral body. This would imply that the astral plane is an impression of the mental plane, that is, if I were to allow the use of these words to give meaning to the perspective. The result of the two planes fused together would be the physiological for lack of a better word, or the features of the astral body (psyche) after its energetic supports are accounted for. As if by luck or serendipity, experience #1223 from November 22 is directly related to this post.
Alfredo wrote:For Sri Aurobindo, seems to be one that intermingles with the vital part of the being (pranic part, the life force) and the mental part of the being (mental world) without being specifically one or the other, but "merely" (and this is I think the key word to understant this quote) being aware of this parts, still retaining part of its physicality.
Sri Aurubindo seems to be suggesting that the astral plane (vital world) and the mental world “being specifically one or the other”, yet merely an impression or the result of both? More precisely, the physiology of the quasi-physical astral form, hence it’s “physicality”; the life force, and the mental. Please correct me if the above observation is incompatible with the view of Sri Aurubindo. If it is the case, I would have to agree with the language used by Sri Aurobindo when he postulates that the Self that holds our individuality is the physic-being that re-incarnates.

However, there's also a different view:
Wikipedia wrote:According to Hindu occultism the mental plane consists of two divisions, the lower division is known as heaven (swarglok) and the upper division is known as the causal plane (maharlok).[21]

Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami wrote:

"The causal plane is the world of light and blessedness, the highest of heavenly regions, extolled in the scriptures of all faiths. It is the foundation of existence, the source of visions, the point of conception, the apex of creation. The causal plane is the abode of Lord Siva and His entourage of Mahadevas and other highly evolved souls who exist in their own self-effulgent form--radiant bodies of centillions of quantum light particles."[22]

Sri Aurobindo developed a very different concept of the mental plane, through his own synthesis of Vedanta (including the Taittiriya Upanishad), Tantra, Theosophy, and Max Théon ideas (which he received via The Mother, who was Theon's student in occultism for two years). In this cosmology, there are seven cosmic planes, three lower, corresponding to relative existence (the Physical, Vital, and Mental), and four higher, representing infinite divine reality (Life Divine bk.1 ch.27) The Aurobindonian Mind or Mental Plane constitutes a large zone of being from the mental vital to the overmental divine region (Letters on Yoga, Jyoti and Prem Sobel 1984), but as with the later Theosophical concept it constitutes an objective reality of sheer mind or thought.
Wikipedia wrote:According to Theosophy the mental plane, also known as the causal plane is the third lowest plane. The mental plane is divided into seven sub-planes.
Charles Leadbeater wrote:

In the mental world one formulates a thought and it is instantly transmitted to the mind of another without any expression in the form of words. Therefore on that plane language does not matter in the least; but helpers working in the astral world, who have not yet the power to use the mental vehicle.[19]
Annie Besant wrote that "The mental plane, as its name implies, is that which belongs to consciousness working as thought; not of the mind as it works through the brain, but as it works through its own world, unencumbered with physical spirit-matter.[20]

A detailed description of the mental plane, along with the mental body, is provided by Arthur E. Powell, who has compiled information in the works of Besant and Leadbeater in a series of books on each of the subtle bodies.
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Re: Astral plane - Vital world & Mental plane - Psychic-bein

Post by Jettins \o/ » November 26th, 2013, 1:40 pm

Michael Beloved wrote:I suggest that there not be a drive to make every word have the same meaning for every teacher of transcendence. If one crosses up every word, one will find eventually that there will be confusion.

It is best to let every explanation of the various teachers stand on its own ground with their meanings for various words.

There is this habit which we have where when one teacher says a word, we want to find that word elsewhere and we want to use it with the same meaning. But this is not a flexible way of learning. It is best to stay away from trying to make the meanings of words match.
The person who was named Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami was from a different tradition than Sri Aurobindo, a completely different system of scriptures. In fact the Subramaniya did not follow the traditional Vedic text or the Puranas. His meaning for causal is deviant from that. This is okay provided we know that what he means by causal is not the same as the original Puranic meanings.
Good point. During a recent astral experience, one that is as credible as it seems to get, I was told that this universe “the universe that you see, was made in 13days, and there are others made in 16 days”. Then the being sent a telepathic thought about the existence of other universes more adequate for the evolution of consciousness. I'm working on the visa permit.

So, there seems to be space for everyone.

I agree. More than trying to make the words match, and prove some imaginary assertion or sorts, I was trying to understand the philosophy of Sri Aurobindo. And I need to know the meaning of his words to do this. I can’t easily go into forums and share things because many people, instead of trying to understand my point of view (which they are not forced to agree), rebut me for not complying with their words or understanding. Yet some others are the exact opposite and find the material refreshing.
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