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Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

This is for discussion of general Astral Projection & Out-of-body Experiences related topics.
Jettins \o/
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Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Jettins \o/ » November 24th, 2011, 4:10 am

Hello, earlier I was asked by summerlander the following question regarding an alien abduction scenario found here...
jettins-journal/topic24.html

"having experienced this, what do you think about though alien abduction reports where people report being paralysed or zapped by aliens in the middle of the night?"


I have read some of Jacques Vallee writings regarding the UFO phenomena...
http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Magonia- ... 196&sr=1-7

I think he is on to something when referring to parallel worlds, the UFO phenomena and associated experiences being in origin from another dimension. I would modify his thesis and suggest that these "dimensions" are accessible via consciousness only. Sometimes our state of consciousness can "shift" perception, this can be felt when having Out of Body experience, using certain "hallucinogenic" substances that can in a sense, lift the veil of our limited perception (limited by the physical senses and the physical plane of existence to which it grounds us). This shift in perception can account for time gaps, memory loss, etc.. experiences typically felt by abductees.

Yet to me consciousness is existing, and existing is the act of becoming aware, and being aware is the act of perception, and perception is the act of using our senses, and these senses can have input from a variety of sources. Some of these sources are purely psychological, yes, but others have been shown not to be, as when a group of people have a collective abduction experiences as with the Case of Betty and Barney Hill.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_ ... _abduction and countless others.

If some of these experiences are happening collectively, then we must postulate that consciousness does indeed have collective properties. If this is so, you can already imagine the endless implications. It could very well be that these experiences in consciousness (abductions), are a state of a collective reality of those called "the aliens", and we humans become receptive to these states that allow them to exist. In a sense, we create them because we can, and the aliens create us because they can. This might be sufficient to trigger subjective experiences that can at times manifest into "real" collective physical experiences.

Before I go on let me talk a bit more on subjective reality. This means that You are the consciousness within which everything exists, the perception of time/space and ALL experience. In a subjective reality you identify with the container in which the whole simulation occurs and not simply by the physical senses.

In the attempt to understand something so complex by consciousness that happens to be human, different interpretations is not only rational but should be expected. The complexities of subjective reality are too vast to reliably decode small glimpses of information. The UFO abduction phenomena in essence is the effect of decoding these small glimpses of information by the limitations of our current sate of consciousness. To me it is more likely that these aliens are "in us", or are part of us, as they can exist outside time/space as we can exist out of space/time at least for brief moments while out of body, or do I dare suggest much longer?

This is what I refer to when saying existing in other dimensions, or I would prefer to say, existing in other states of being. I think consciousness has magnificent properties only starting to become unlocked in resent times.

Personal research (and/or personal realization) is the most valuable and useful research and in my opinion it is the only thing that counts towards our evolution. We will be manipulated, lied, and indoctrinated by a variety of "belief systems", let this not be a deterrent to seek "YOUR OWN TRUTH", and not fall into the trap of belief in the opposite of the "belief systems", simply because you cannot agree with it. There is no left or right, best or worst belief, as it is infinite. Find your path by never stopping learning. Always question everything, everything can be viewed as a learning experience, you can then use your findings in the "Astral Realms" (or what i prefer to call other states of being) to see how it resonates with your inner you. One thing will then lead to another, the path of self discovery.

Have a great day!
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Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Summerlander » November 26th, 2011, 7:22 pm

That was a very cool read, Jettins! Awesome! I'm glad my question inspired you to write extensively about this! 8-)

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Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Lionheart » November 27th, 2011, 1:56 am

This topic interests me greatly. Over at AstralPulse.com I just posted on a similar topic. It had to do with being touched as you sleep. As a child I had many nights when I had been rustled out of a dream due to my feet, then legs being touched. The strangest thing is I would awaken the next morning with my blankets pulled out of the bottom of my bed and my feet/legs exposed. This still occurs sometimes today, I don't fear it like I have in the past, because nothing ever happened bad because of it. I am still living and breathing. But when it started happening when I was younger I would immediately pull the blankets over my head terrifed. I never really spoke of this to anyone, but there is a lady on the Astral Pulse site that I have come to find out that I share a lot of experiences with. I would like to know if any of you have experienced these happenings or any other strange events as well. I feel that there is some kind of bond that links the people that are waking up to Phasing and Obe's together. We won't find out the truth until we start to post about our own unique circumstances. One thing I have had that has been really strange has been a burning foot syndrome. It always occur at night, it will awaken me and is so severe I have to go to the bathtub and soak them in cold water. Both feet start burning intensely. This happens at least 2-3 times a week now. My doctor has no clue why. I just went through tests for Diabetes and they were negative. I also have both my toes currently infected by ingrown nails. Again the doctor has no clue why. Circulation problems have been ruled out. Blood pressure is completely normal. He seems stumped. But life goes on. :)

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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Rodge » May 28th, 2012, 7:50 am

What about scars, marks, blood on sheets an clothes? Could the abduction phenomena be real on one part. I can well imagine that things like that eventually happen. Why not? But let's say you've experienced something you would suspect to be an abduction, wouldn't the fear involved in this not trigger even more nightmares and if lucid "real" abductions? Or maybe it is all of it at the same time.

Reading Karla Turners "Into The Fringe" lets me suspect that most of the described things that happen at night during sleep or after/before awakening are fear induced experiences. No wonder an "abductee" would relate everything to aliens.

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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Jettins \o/ » May 28th, 2012, 9:23 am

wouldn't the fear involved in this not trigger even more nightmares and if lucid "real" abductions?


It's understandable to try find validation that these experiences are "real", but if someone uses real vs unreal to define reality something very important can be missed. Here are some interesting passages I highlighted as I was reading the book, "Human Encounters with Alien - by John E. Mack".

"These unexplained observations need not represent a visitation from space visitors, but something even more interesting: a window toward undiscovered dimensions of our environment" - Human Encounters with Aliens - Page 11

"What I found most helpful was Kuhn's observation that the Western scientific paradigm had come to assume the rigidity of a theology, and that this belief system was held in place by structures, categories, and polarities of language, such as real/unreal, exists/does not exist, objective/subjective, intrapsychic/external world, and happened/did not happen. He suggested that in pursuing my investigations I suspend to the degree that I was able all these language forms and simply collect raw information, putting aside whether or not what I was learning fit any particular world view. " - John E. Mack MD

"In the Abduction phenomena, as I suspect, manifests itself in our physical space/time world but is not of it in a literal sense, our notions of accuracy of recall regarding what did or did not "happen" many not apply, at least not in the literal physical sense." - John E. Mack MD

Regarding abductees being suggestible, he wrote:

"Furthermore, abductees are peculiarly unsuggestible. To meet the criticisms I and other investigators have tried repeatedly to trick abductees by suggesting specific elements - hair on the aliens, corners in the rooms of the ships, for example - only to be met with direct contradictions of these efforts."

Regardless of how this can happen, it appears to me that it is happening at least at some level.

fear involved in this not trigger even more nightmares and if lucid "real" abductions?


Yes, It most definitely would, but this doesn't mean it's any less real when you give it a second look. For example if someone experienced a traumatic event in physical reality it is very likely that the event would permeate the subconscious mind of the individual causing them to re-live or re-experience similar emotions. They could take the forms of nightmares that become echos of sorts, residual effects of being exposed to traumatic experiences.

If someone includes a traumatic abduction outside what is possible or "real", it could be similar to saying that someone could not have had a traumatic event in physical reality, simply because nobody else was there to see it as there is "no prof". There is a risk of ignoring something very significant and labeling insignificant because of incompatibility with the scientific paradigm. In which case, the obvious cannot be ignored. When it happens to someone, it becomes a reality that is not easily dismissed as non-sense.


I've had many of these echos (not relating to the abduction phenomena), in my own dream and astral dimension experiences. They follow a very powerful Astral experience or revelation that appears to be outside of myself, to inform me about what should be really important to me. If you would like to try to understand importance and how traumatic abduction events fit into this, I suggest you read the book. Great read.

http://www.amazon.com/Abduction-Human-Encounters-Aliens-ebook/dp/B0030AF5D4/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Rodge » May 29th, 2012, 2:06 pm

I agree with you and thank you for your detailed answer.
So here is my thesis: with the right mindsetting it is possible to get physically harmed after entering another reality (especially in an alien setting). It's not what I believe. Just a 'what if' thing goin on in my mind...

So assumed the abduction phenomena take place in a phase state it must clearly be possible to get harmed in the physical for the abduction is another reality. But that also contradicts my knowledge about phase states and it has always been said by the majority of the experienced guys that nothing could ever harm you in the state. So maybe believing could make it happen? Who knows...I want to believe that nothing can harm you. At least I hope so.

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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Jettins \o/ » May 29th, 2012, 5:25 pm

Yeah, It appears that belief at times has an effect, but during others it has no effect. Abductees will usually conclude that there is a reason for the Alien contact an agenda behind it. I think it is very debatable what this agenda is, or the motivation behind the abduction phenomena.

1: some say that it is an evil sinister alien agenda for their self serving motivations

2. other say it is for creating a new race of hybrid humanoids

3: others say it is to help helping evolve human consciousness by informing humanity about the consequences of its actions

4. others say that their spirit in a previous existence was of alien origin, and the abduction is the way to learn who they have been before

5. other say it is a combination of these



One thing is certain, it is to be important to the Aliens.
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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Jettins \o/ » May 29th, 2012, 7:12 pm

There was is an interesting post regarding the Alien Abduction phenomena in reply to our posts, you can read it here...

"Wow some folks have a lot to learn about Abductions and Contact... Of course its real... this is all I do, I research and try to teach folks about Abduction and Contact. But you go to an Abduction Forum or Contactee forum with Dr.s, Scholars, and Experiencers to get the truth... Many of us are experiencers and YES it is 100% real, you can get abducted both physically and also ethereal , you can have scars, taken fetus, raped with a physical being, not see through but full fledged being. There is also contact, my contact is with the Pleiadian's, I have extensive experience also with the Reptilian Humanoid ones. Contact and Abduction (there is a difference) starts usually in young life, age of 3... And remains for your entire life... NOT neccessarily abduction. Usually Abductees end up also being Contactees of benevolent ones.. But you would have to believe in Angels etc or Angelic Watcher ETs.... For those that do not believe read Beaty's paper on Symptoms of Pathological Skepticism. I've been on forums with scientists, scholars from all over the world, some astro physcists and many others that not only believe but are also experiencers and who are trying very hard to get folks knocked off the side of their head to understand that it is 100$ as real as you sitting there in your chair reading this. Many do not talk on their experiences for reasons like this, for reasons of folks writing off something that they are not in a position to understand unless it has happened to them. No offense but there is extensive information out there but one has to actually want the information."

You can read the rest here...

http://meditationtime.grou.ps/talks/6934290#
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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Rodge » May 30th, 2012, 3:32 am

What a post from Jewel ;-) I also know about most of the things she mentioned. I am very interested in the topic. Still I have to question it. In a bonkers world full of bonkers people you just have to do it. And I even (if not first and foremost)have to question bonkers me once in a while. And for sure for me it's not necessary to be abductet to believe in it. I am just careful with it. All of these abductions have the chance to have been lucid dreams, false awakenings etc. And hey, what about the abduction stories that bring you good money when written well and printed in a book? How few people would make the effort to debunk...

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Re: Alien Abductions Vs Astral/OBE Experiences

Postby Jettins \o/ » May 30th, 2012, 12:08 pm

Your absolutely right, a healthy skeptic is a wise way to be these days. I don't doubt that some of the authors would exaggerate so that they can make an otherwise dull book attractive.
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