Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

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Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Phoenix » August 23rd, 2012, 12:22 pm

Hi Folks, Sean here. Hope this is a good spot to start this discussion, as it's OBE related but a little off-topic.

I've started writing articles about the big mysteries - for a new website I have planned.
I've been doing a lot of book research, but I need some advice.

While researching near death experiences I became aware of the negative ones people were having. Something I had at first dismissed as an anomaly.
This lead to my discovery of the concepts of the planes of existence. Including the lower or dark astral. Wow. Booooo.

Here's what I've been able to piece together...

The Realms
Earthbound plane - ghosts and such.
Astral plane - ranges from dark to light.
Many higher planes beyond - hooray!
Separated by vibration/energy/light levels. Sound about right so far?

The destination
Had a really successful life full of love and service to humanity? - shoot straight to one of the higher realms.
Had a life with lots of hate, anger, selfishness, extreme desires etc? - get mired in the dark astral until ready to let it go and atone.
Oversimplified to the point of sounding flippant I know. Or uninformed maybe.

The question I'm having trouble with - hoping for insights
Okay, so my star map is coming along fine (I hope). But what is the deal with seemingly everyday people who find themselves in the dark astral??
Particularly in near death experiences. I mean, if the astral acts with a kind of spiritual gravity, why aren't these people floating straight up?
These people are often generally good people with some flaws. Just like most people right?

The only plausible answers I've been able to come up with are insubstantial (pun unintended) at best.
The flaws in their lifestyle or character was enough to cause them troubles.
It is part of a shedding of their old personality.
They got lost. Seduced by the dark side on the way through.
And a bunch of random stuff about 'journey of the hero' and shamanistic initiations.

Hmm. Any insights?
Cheers, Sean.
"At some point, the illusion breaks down and the opening for the start of the spiritual quest commences.
The quest turns from without to within and the search for answers begins."

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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by hydro1 » August 23rd, 2012, 5:19 pm

Hmm you hit everything on the head...but people create their own hell..most people what they've done wrong hit them pretty hard most souls punish themselves...most of them just not ready to pass over cause of unfinished business....hell is a belief system..and lots of souls get stuck in their own bleif system territiries..that is why i recommeded you to read destiny of souls it will tell you alot about these type of souls and the lot.
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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Jettins \o/ » August 23rd, 2012, 6:37 pm

Hello Sean,
While researching near death experiences I became aware of the negative ones people were having. Something I had at first dismissed as an anomaly.
I would recommend the book Blessing in Disguise by Barbara Rommer if you haven’t already researched it.
The Realms
Earthbound plane - ghosts and such.
Astral plane - ranges from dark to light.
Many higher planes beyond - hooray!
Separated by vibration/energy/light levels. Sound about right so far?
You can view it as such if you like Sean, it wouldn’t be a bad way of putting it to explain things to the uninformed. The problem is that it doesn’t really explain anything when you really think about it does it?

I have a different way of viewing how this works. The things you have mentioned such as light, dark vibrations and energy isn’t that at all, instead it is a state of being. The Astral substance or our projected self while in the Astral Dimensions (often called the “subtle body”), is actually our psychological make-up or psyche. The visual scenarios of light and whatever light can create as a visual representation is our psyche. So does this mean we create the light? Yes, we create the light and the dark and whatever else is experienced. This makes no sense, so how do separate beings exist if we create what is experienced? We create them by the using our inner senses. I will explain.

In physical reality if a person was to close their eyes they could say that they aren’t creating anything because they are shut in themselves in mediation. Even though a person is right in front of them they will not be able to see him. Similarly the same happens in the Astral Realms but instead of closing your eyes as one would do in physical reality, a person would instead close their psychic sense. This is what creates the darkness, no not because they can’t see light but because the person is not able to perceive things outside of themselves.

Are you saying that people are dark inside which is why they can’t see light? No. I am saying that darkness is not lack of light; darkness is lack of psychic perception or intuition. More interesting question surface our awareness. If darkness is lack of psychic perception wouldn’t this meant that people get trapped in whatever their psychological profile demands while in the realms? Precisely, the things people experience (see, feel, touch) in the astral realms are a projection of their state of being. What is state of being, you’re confusing me now? A person psychological profile or psyche defines their “state of being” or how they need to exist, which then creates their subtle body or astral substance, this then will establish which “dimension of being” or Astral Realm which they fit into. Wouldn’t this mean that our reality in the astral realms is psychological? Indeed, but is more. While still in a human body a person might have an addiction. Wait, so is this addiction a biological effect of being exposed to a substance or a psychological need of our consciousness as you seem to be saying? Interesting questions start to surface. It is exposure to being a human being and living the human condition. We can become intoxicated to physical existence, it then becomes very difficult to see things outside of what we have been conditioned to by an intoxicating substance or even by what we have been programmed to believe.

Ok, this is starting to make sense. So you’re saying that people create their own sense of limited reality. How does this explain what people experience after death or even in the astral realms? People inability to open out to things outside of themselves creates a tunnel vision type of effect essentially diminishing psychic perception. In physical reality they can easily ignore it and look someplace else, but what do you think would happen if they do this in the astral realms? In the astral realms they wouldn’t be able to see or experience anything else but THEIR OWN perpetually sustained psychological reality. Yes, the reality with all the flaws that a person might have indeed. You mentioned ghosts?

As a general rule in the astral realms people are allowed to create and sustain their reality as they want. Those that choice to want to control or harm others will cause their psychic senses to diminish (often referred as lower vibration), so that they are able to interact with like beings (often identified with the lower dimensions) even if the source of the negativity is unintentional. The psychic talk is confusing me, can you explain more? People in the astral realms aren’t “people” but instead they are their psychological representation and manifestation. In physical reality we can talk to a person verbally, but in the Astral Realms we can talk to people telepathically. How is this possible? It is possible because we are “sensing and acknowledging” their psychological existence. It is a consciousness field in which we exist and navigate psychically with our minds. If a person prefers not to interact in such a way they would be closed, rendering others invisible and inaccessible. Does this create the closed off realities people might find themselves in? I mean I have read stories about people existing after death doing some very bizarre and mundane things! Indeed, this is often referred to as existing in a “lower vibrational” state yet if we re-think about it they are really metaphors of being. Nobody is really vibrating non-physically it is only the perception of it.
But what is the deal with seemingly everyday people who find themselves in the dark astral??
It's not because people have been bad or are evil, as some belief systems might try to do. It is simply because a person has not developed the inner psychic perception while at the same time unable to make sense of their inner reality. So instead of having interesting occurrences, they instead unintentionally fall back to their state of being as define by their human condition. Fear of the unknown, conditioning by belief systems, lack of experience, inability to deal with inner personal issues and a variety of changing influences create a “closing the door” type effect in the astral realms. What is really closing? The ability of an individual to psychic perceive things outside of themselves, without the psychological baggage distorting the reality of the astral dimensions. The people unwilling or unable to create a state of being free from destructive elements will render their psychic self inert and unable to perceive greater realities. OK, so this would explain why our “state of being”, or our psychology determines the astral dimension we experience, because it is really our “dimension of being”. That’s right.

Now we have to take a look at your question from another angle to fully understand this. There is no time in the astral realms only the perception of it. Consciousness creates Time as needed as it creates the 4th dimensional space or the space in which it feels it exists. (This is why we can jump to different dimensions and realities without moving in the Astral Realms). Ok so if we are creating time as needed, then does this mean that we create experience as needed too? Precisely, consciousness exists outside time/space so it creates experience on a “state of readiness” basis. In physical existence we all accept that we can learn from bad experiences, but in non-physical existences we think this is only bad? It’s the same, we can learn from them. Becoming exposed to our inner conflicts in a way that we cannot deny or become distracted as we do in physical reality is one of the greatest gift the astral realms have to offer in preparation to our permanent stay. Human consciousness wants to find what is best for itself in the Astral, yet for this it might need to realize a few things.
I mean, if the astral acts with a kind of spiritual gravity, why aren't these people floating straight up?
People would get bored going straight up. As they are not ready for it, they instead want to deal with the mundane type of realities that aren’t associated with the heavenly realms. But don’t people want to go to heaven? Many people believe they do as a child wanting to become a princes when she grows up. How many people are actually preparing to give up on the stupidities of the human condition? Wait, but doesn’t psychic potential determine the astral dimension? Fear of the unknown, conditioning by belief systems, lack of experience, inability to deal with inner personal issues and a variety of changing influences can give us a myopic effect making more advanced or evolved methods of existing difficult grasp and experience (the higher realms).
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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Phoenix » August 24th, 2012, 3:03 am

Thanks guys. Excellent info, thanks so much!

I haven't been able to locate a digital copy of Blessing in Disguise yet, but I've recently read Dancing Past the Dark (Nancy Evans Bush), The Afterlife Unveiled (Stafford Betty), and The Astral Plane: Its Scenery, Inhabitants, and Phenomena (C.W. Leadbeater). I just bought a Kindle copy of Fringe Dweller on the Night Shift (Monica Holy) after reading one of your posts. Really looking forward to that one. An astral paramedic - how cool is that. Sounds like you might have had some experiences like that too.

So, in regards to the 'realms', I think I understand, although the concepts are a bit mind boggling at first. Earlier in my research I had gotten past the concept of the 'realms' being actual places stacked on top of each other, and saw them as co-existing in space, but separated from each other by 'vibrational frequency'. But you are saying that it is more a state of mind (for which 'vibrations' are just a metaphor) in which they can't see the reality of the light-filled realms around them because of a lack of psychic perception. They are left with only what is within their own psyche to see, which includes their baggage, beliefs/expectations, guilt, fear, desires and stuff like that. The lack of experience reason really stands out to me as well. This could be remedied in the physical life, as well as fixing the wrong thinking/action that causes it in the first place.

I can understand the concept of how being in the darker state of being in the astral could be a way of learning - working through the inner conflicts. But wow, talk about a school of hard knocks. Seems potentially even harder than the physical realm in some ways.

Your last paragraph sounds like insights into why someone not-so-bad might wind up in the dark-state, and why quite flawed people might bypass this and go straight to a more open light-state. I'm talking about the conditioning, fear of unknown and lack of experience. Once again, it occurs to me that this is stuff that can be remedied on the physical plane.

As I research this stuff and learn, it really strongly occurs to me that this life is like being dropped in the middle of a video game without having a manual. Religions seemed to have missed the mark with this in my opinion. Only vague or distorted bits of the puzzle, or just plain wrong sometimes. As bits of the big picture come together in my mind from all different sources, it makes me realise how out-of-touch we are in the human condition. Knowing even a bit about how things work is a powerful tool and motivator. Who in their right mind, knowing this stuff would still choose to walk into personal darkness eh?
"At some point, the illusion breaks down and the opening for the start of the spiritual quest commences.
The quest turns from without to within and the search for answers begins."

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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by hydro1 » August 24th, 2012, 10:04 am

Good you have all the right info...now all you have to do is exp it for yourself...as for the whole astral paramedic jettins is more close to being that....you caan talk to him more about it he's exping it....if you interested in those types of paths they will open up to you...it did for jettins ....their are many paths to take...it will change you physical life too...i'm on my way to taking two paths of knowledge and healing
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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Jettins \o/ » August 24th, 2012, 7:44 pm

But you are saying that it is more a state of mind (for which 'vibrations' are just a metaphor) in which they can't see the reality of the light-filled realms around them because of a lack of psychic perception. They are left with only what is within their own psyche to see, which includes their baggage, beliefs/expectations, guilt, fear, desires and stuff like that. The lack of experience reason really stands out to me as well. This could be remedied in the physical life, as well as fixing the wrong thinking/action that causes it in the first place.
Excellent summary Sean, thanks!
Your last paragraph sounds like insights into why someone not-so-bad might wind up in the dark-state, and why quite flawed people might bypass this and go straight to a more open light-state.
Good catch. You seem to be understanding something that a lot of people can't seem to grasp. There are infinite dimension in the Astral Realms, many flavors to existing indeed. A person should instead be concerned about how they fit into them and how they can be of service. Why? because the most beautiful realms seem to be sustained cooperatively, not surprising. People are allowed to take a long as they need in the realms to come to terms with themselves and change towards a greater understanding and enlightenment. Psychic perception then increases opening up new dimensions of being or astral realms. In other words astral dimensions that are "good or bad" do not need to be permanent. This is the general rule it appears to me. But there are variations on how this can be done, discussions are welcomed. You will read about such stories in this forum.

In the beautiful heavenly realms Psychic communion is a default method of being. It doesn't take a genius to see how living in such harmony can be great. Some having instruction manuals to attain entrance in certain dimensions of being would make sense indeed. There are certain qualities of being that seem to be conducive to these states. Many religions try to do this. But even this, is not for everyone. Something I think people should not loss grasp off is that we are very unique for a reason. The point was never to do or think the same, the point is to learn to realize how our psyche affects our inner reality. It is up to the each individual to decide how they want to unfold this process. Earth seems to be a learning dimension, a place where people get to know themselves indeed. The stability of this dimension make it the perfect place. The more knowledge and understanding based on learning the more wisely the individual can choice to evolve. I can only hope for people to choice what is truly best for each single one of them. But first they need to learn how the knowledge and experience that is processed thought their life affects their inner reality. The inner reality will then determine where we fit into after death. Astral Projection and Dreaming can be used to find out.
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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by fairyana » August 24th, 2012, 7:52 pm

I agree with everything posted in this thread. :)
I think that the destructive elements which bind the consciousness in darker realms does have many times association with evil thoughts, but I see it mostly as ignorance. At the same time I also associate constructive elements that elevate consciousness with what is charitable, humble, diligent, moral, etc. Would I be wrong?

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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Jettins \o/ » August 24th, 2012, 8:07 pm

I think that the destructive elements which bind the consciousness in darker realms does have many times association with evil thoughts, but I see it mostly as ignorance. At the same time I also associate constructive elements that elevate consciousness with what is charitable, humble, diligent, moral, etc. Would I be wrong?
Excellent summary indeed. Thanks Fairyana!

Fairyana and Sean, you might find the following post interesting as a continuation of this discussion:

astral-projection/moral-authority-astra ... -t434.html
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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by universallogic » August 28th, 2012, 4:47 pm

Jettins wrote: The Astral substance or our projected self while in the Astral Dimensions (often called the “subtle body”), is actually our psychological make-up or psyche...

...As a general rule in the astral realms people are allowed to create and sustain their reality as they want. Those that choice to want to control or harm others will cause their psychic senses to diminish (often referred as lower vibration), so that they are able to interact with like beings (often identified with the lower dimensions) even if the source of the negativity is unintentional.
Wow what a wonderful response. The many experiences (dreams, mystical states) that I have are 'projections' of this phenomenon. It is a largely unconscious process with a strong tendency to do what it 'wants,' but the machine is mindless. What it wants is just how it is set up. It can be reprogrammed.

I believe that dark or negative experiences, whether they are projections, dreams, hallucinatory psychedelic trips, are all part of the same bag. Some people have to discard and reprogram emotional and karmic 'baggage' not because they are selfish, evil people, but because just as they have to cognitively work through bad experiences they have to work through them psychicly.
NOTE: The most evil and selfish people that I have known, don't even have a sense of guilt, I really doubt that they often become victims of bad dreams or anything like that unfortunately. It's people who are harmed, become emotionally scarred that have to deal with those things (at least that I have met, and what I gather from communities like this where people share their experiences) The worst people I've known are ironically by and large very good at avoiding any kind of negativity that they might have to experience, and very good and propelling those around them into those places instead. Their machine is NOT mindless... I think this is where the idea of psychic vampirism comes into play. By 'projecting' those kinds of waking experience or unconscious realizations in our own personal and private reality 'tunnels!' IT can become progressively worse too, when those tunnels seek validation in the waking reality or through others. Phlip K Dick hints at this in much of his writing, but particularly well in this context in his novel 'The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch'. Palmer Eldritch is a crafty cyborg psychic vampire who haunts the tunnel realities of a small group of people who feed each other their fears.

This machine is mindless thing... You know that saying about how 'humans only use 1% of their brain? ' Well, that's what is also going on here. Things are being put to work but they are not being directed. It's a general statement because it's like that with almost everything. What is being 'created' in dreams, mystical states or projections through the unconscious psyche is not something we tend to take direct control of or author for ourselves. It's a way to process things on the side, reflect, etc. We can do tricks to control it, to minimize the unpleasantness. It's Our own art-official tunnel reality. Depending on the territory occupied by a person's mind and day to day experiences I think it can be really formulaic for some people in general/for some people sometimes and awfully tedius and difficult work for others/or at other times. Unfortunately, just because you have to work harder doesn't mean it actually has to be hard work, and it definitely does *not* mean you are in any way a bad or worse person in another life or deserved whatever you had to go through. Same is with these experiences. There are all kinds of reasons we struggle and the best principle is to employ a constant compassion for your self... If you already are a victim then don't make things worse, and the finger to whoever says otherwise.

Jettins wrote: ...We can become intoxicated to physical existence, it then becomes very difficult to see things outside of what we have been conditioned to by an intoxicating substance or even by what we have been programmed to believe.
I like the parrallels of this limited reality, dark astral territories, or low vibrations being metaphors for 'tunnel reality' as described by Robert Anton Wilson in I believe (at first) 'Quantum Psychology'. The notion of dreams and truly private and virtual/fake realities we experience strengthens this notion by a 100x than when compared to waking reality alone. I have been seeing the fingerprints of myself within these kinds of experiences long enough to know that I'm kidding myself. However I am starting to think that my psyche is just getting all the wiser and tricksier as it gets older as well and studies 'me' and my day to day experiences nonstop learning from it like a computer, regardless of whether or not I choose to keep up with it. :o I would feel a lot smarter and more confident if only I would not always only realize the gimmicks after the fact, because first impressions are what matter in such states... I had an experience about ghosts last night, and I cannot remember anything like that in the past. Multinational myths legends and popular beliefs about ghosts? Unconscious or underlying associations developed in what is witnessed through 'experienced' media?

Don't underestimate it. The psyche is smart, clever and always learning.
<NOTE: this is my major concern ATM.

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Re: Why do ordinary people get stuck in the dark astral

Post by Jettins \o/ » August 29th, 2012, 12:45 pm

universallogic wrote:The most evil and selfish people that I have known, don't even have a sense of guilt...
The worst people I've known are ironically by and large very good at avoiding any kind of negativity that they might have to experience, and very good and propelling those around them into those places instead.
It's also possible that these individuals are physically inactive operating on body mind only. These individuals will not remember dreams or have empathy towards others. For a variety of reason they are unable to sense the spirit realms, therefore will not be aware the darkness in which they are on. Behavior will have no side effects. Unfortunately for them their issues might need to get confronted all at once. It is also possible that these people belong to a certain class of spirit beings, those that are committed to a cause even before they got here.
universallogic wrote:just because you have to work harder doesn't mean it actually has to be hard work, and it definitely does *not* mean you are in any way a bad or worse person in another life or deserved whatever you had to go through.
I agree with this statement. Not because of the traditional views regarding karma (I think karma been simplified to the point of misinforming), but for the reason that as human beings we are living certain roles in a microcosm of a great reality.

Interesting views, nice colors by the way.

Have a great day!
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