Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

This discussion is for help becoming Lucid while dreaming, Lucid Aids, Increase Lucidity, Dream Signs & Recall.
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Jettins \o/
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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by Jettins \o/ » December 1st, 2011, 11:51 pm

I will add to this post as members share their thoughts. Thanks to Avalinah for this idea.

I think there are personality traits that will aid someone to achieve Lucidity, this is not talked about much in my opinion. To me it seems that some are made for it, and others are not. Wouldn't it make sense to analyze these life styles and personality traits to see what seems to be working for people?

In this Video presentation from Neil Kramer, he indirectly talks about a certain mindset that in my opinion will simply unlock lucid experiences. Found here.. personal-research/neil-kramer-guerrilla ... -t123.html

I've realized that the "need" for lucid and out of body experiences as defined by an interesting evolutionary process in consciousness is what actually causes these experiences to become very frequent and even story like as it happens to me in cycles, it might also explain why they are generated... In my opinion more emphasis can be placed on the pondering of the "why". I don't think there is a better or worse motive that will encourage lucid experiences per say. It is simply finding a motive that resonates to the evolutionary You, this will help create a purpose. You might to read what I have to say on "state of being" all around the site.

In the end, it is the bringing of the thoughts to the surface of awareness that promotes further understanding, and not so much the "logical" conclusion made from them.

If anyone feels incline too, please view the linked presentation from Neil Kramer and write your thoughts on how it can connect to help promote Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projection and Out of Body experiences.

You may also share you general thoughts about it.

Have a great day! :D
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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by avalinah » December 2nd, 2011, 4:14 am

this is very true, Jettins. i have observed some of my friends who have lucid dreams easily and compared them to myself (as you know i have difficulty achieving any kind of lucidity).

i've noticed that the biggest impact on my results is confidence. and my friends who have no trouble becoming lucid, well, they have this confidence. i have noticed that when i'm in the right mindset, i get results very easily. but once i drop out of that mindset, i have absolutely no idea how to get back into it :/ i can try for months till i get back into it for only several days. because it's so hard, i know what i need to be, but i really, really don't know how it's done and how to get back there.

also, people are more observant, more aware. for example, my mother has always tried to teach me to be more observant, ever since i was a small kid. she notices every little thing. but i have never been able to. i never even notice a friend passing by in the street if i don't have an appointment. so many times mom has asked me "have you noticed this tv star just walk by..??", and.. of course i haven't. i have also tried making this trait evolve in me, but.. i don't know :( maybe it's just not for me, it's like my brain's made up differently.

the funny thing is that when i started LDing, my first tries went really easily but then it got hard after that - i have no idea why! but i do suspect that something might have to do with the fact that 1. i didn't want to have LDs for 3 years fearing they would ruin my NDs 2. right after i had my first one this meditation teacher told me LDs were dangerous o_o surely i didn't believe it but did my subconscious..?

also, i've always pondered about the fact on how people like Wyvern or those who have constant nightmares learn to understand they're dreaming easily. how do they master that awarenes.. it surely becomes a personaly trait with time, i believe.

i think i've strayed from the subject though, i'm sorry :oops:

Summerlander

Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by Summerlander » December 2nd, 2011, 8:48 pm

I think your post still managed to remain relevant though. To become fully aware in the dream world, one must get into the habit of paying attention to what surrounds them and asking the question: "am I dreaming?" - remember to answer the question and don't just assume that you must be awake (even if you are sure that you are)! Being a dream detective will certainly lead you to have more DILDs. Keeping a journal is excellent because it will help you to identify patterns and recurring dreamsigns.

As for WILDs...well, you know the drill. You can either jump into a dream scenery from the hypnagogic (or sometimes hypnopompic) state, or, you can try the deferred method (wake-back-to-bed). If you don't jump into a dream scenery because none manifests, separation from the body can always be used and you will most likely encounter a vivid dream version of your room. If you think you have genuinely separated from the body then test the environment - is it stable and congruent with the waking world even when you look away and back at something?

Anyway, you retain self-awareness as you go from wakefulness into the dream world. However, don't think that your mindfulness will remain intact as you spend time there - you can easily lose your lucidity by falling asleep. To prevent the potential mindlessness from taking over, simply remain focused and active in the dream world. You can remind yourself frequently that you are dreaming. It also helps if you study objects there by touching them, peering at them, and listening out for sounds. I usually rub my hands and listen to the sound it produces, experience the tactility and look at the way my hands look. Sensory amplification will help you to retain your conscious and logical mind as well as prolong the experience.

To put it another way, this is how I look at the phenomenon:

Waking State:

Also known as wakefulness. In this state, people perceive the physical realm. An individual who is awake is conscious, self-aware, and there is realism of perception. The environment is stable and there is no required effort to enter this state. The perceived world seems to follow set rules, and, only on a quantum level, do things appear to be less logical and more uncertain.

Dream State:

This entails non-lucid dreams and falling asleep is all that is needed to enter this state. Self-awareness is absent and the unconscious mind often rules over the conscious one. The dreamer is immersed in plots and often detached from waking life memories. The experience can be vivid or vague, and, despite the instability, the illogical is accepted as being logical and true. Certain techniques can be employed to boost dream recall.

Phase State:

This entails out-of-body experiences (OOBEs or OBEs) and lucid dreams. Both are one and the same as a practitioner of this state has the distinct sensation of being elsewhere other than the physical body. This elusive state can be entered before, during, and after sleep. Effort is required in order to enter the phase voluntarily, although, some experiences are induced involuntarily. The practitioner is conscious and self-aware in what appears to be a reality of a mental nature which often emulates the waking state experience. One perceives a realistic phantom reality that can surpass the quality of the waking world, and, although phase environments can appear stable, they can also transmute. It is possible to slip into the dream state from here and vice versa.


EEG Brain Scans

Image

WEC = Waking with Eyes Closed
REM = Dream state (where most of our vivid dreaming occurs)
Lucid = The Phase State (awake in the dream - a hybrid state between dreaming and wakefulness)

To keep it to the topic. I believe anyone can learn and develop the skill to enter the phase frequently. Perhaps certain individuals require a predisposition, but that's all. People of all backgrounds and of differing traits have experienced this phenomenon. Interpretations vary, of course. For example, for Robert Bruce, a separation from the body into an inaccurate replica of the bedroom is "astral projection". For James Randi, it is a very elaborate hallucination or a peculiar lucid dream where the brain has manifested the surroundings from expectation plus a mishmash of thought-forms and imagination combined. Both characters can experience the same promotion of lucidity, however even though they are clearly two different people.

Once in the phase, and individual can carry out a plan of action, or, they can just watch the "particles drifting through" as Kramer said, without making any judgement based on beliefs and preconceived ideas. Then again, that in itself is also another plan of action and another way of looking at reality. If we picture the mind as being a TV, both dreams and waking life are watched on the screen. Neither are real (not even objective reality because it is never experienced directly). In other words, one might as well see the waking world as the "supreme dream".

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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by uMonk » December 3rd, 2011, 7:19 am

Biggest Factor in determining the success of a Lucid Dream or OBE = Belief.
avalinah wrote:i've noticed that the biggest impact on my results is confidence. and my friends who have no trouble becoming lucid, well, they have this confidence. i have noticed that when i'm in the right mindset, i get results very easily.
Second important factor is commitment, once you have an experience it is then up to you to put in the effort to have more… this step is different for everybody, it just depends how often you want to OBE.

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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by avalinah » December 3rd, 2011, 11:08 am

i agree, belief is the most important thing. but no, not even belief. it's more like confidence. and not just confidence, it has to be the right confidence :p for example, i told myself yesterday i would have 6 DEILDs but.. xD guess how many i had.. zero :P it has to be a right kind of confidence, which is hard to snap back into.

back on RCs.. i have tried RCing for months and months, but it never gave any results whatsoever. mainly because my dreams are usually not connected with my day-to-day. i don't dream of work like normal people, or the stuff that i did during the day. those types of dreams are rare.. so if i do RCs, they just.. don't get in my dreams somehow. but i've noticed a funny thing with RCs. it's like some kind of "shock factor". if i don't even think of RCing for weeks, but then suddenly do ONLY JUST ONE RC one day, i will have a LD that night. the brain must see this as 'something new and unusual'. which is exactly why i think it doesn't work for me when i do it all the time. it's not "new" anymore. it's usual. so my brain discards it.
so i wonder if that has something to do with personality types as well. cause i've noticed that techniques only tend to work when they're 'new' :?
it just depends how often you want to OBE.
not true. i want to OBE all the time, but it doesn't mean i will. if i keep wanting it, i just get more stressed that i don't get any. i've been persistent since april, but my results are minimal. it's just about choosing the right mindset, i think.. but that's extremely hard, since i don't know how to get into it. i manage to do it sometimes, but it's always just like stumbling in the dark, cause i never know how to get back in that mindset when i lose it. it seems i'm in it again, but there isn't that "click", if you know what i mean :p

Summerlander

Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by Summerlander » December 3rd, 2011, 11:32 am

i manage to do it sometimes, but it's always just like stumbling in the dark,
What do you men by this? It sounds to me that when you actually manage to do it, the experiences are dark, vague or brief...in which case you may need to perform deepening.

By the way, you can download Michael Raduga's School of Out of Body Travel for free where you will find an array of useful techniques that can help you to enter, maintain and manage the phase state.
i don't know maybe it's just not for me, it's like my brain's made up differently.
Nonsense. The brain has a property known as neuroplasticity. It can change and adapt according to the environment. If you choose to learn how to play an instrument, for example, your brain will change in order to accommodate this change and it will create and reinforce new neural connections that will make it easier for you to gradually improve on this skill. Memory can also be improved and soon you will find yourself instinctively playing the instrument. What once felt difficult or impossible to do is now very natural.

By saying to yourself that maybe the phase is not for you and that your brain is different is simply giving yourself the excuse as to why you can't seem to get it and it only turns into a vicious cycle. The problem here is giving up and believe that a mere "dry period" means that you are no longer capable. Tell yourself that, if you have done it once then you can do it again. As long as you can experience being awake and dreaming, then you can experience the phase (OOBE/AP/LD). It is simply being awake in the dream. Anyone can do it. Don't set yourself barriers.
Last edited by Summerlander on December 3rd, 2011, 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by avalinah » December 3rd, 2011, 11:39 am

you took that literally. it was a figure of speech. i meant "i don't know how exactly to get my confidence to be of the right kind". it's an expression.

my OBEs/LDs are not at all dark or anything like that.

i have read at least half of that book that you recommended.. but nothing there is knew, i've known this stuff for a while. every source is usually just a rephrasing of the other sources i have already read in other places.

Summerlander

Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by Summerlander » December 3rd, 2011, 11:48 am

Hi, I've edited my post above. Also, I work with Michael Raduga and you will find that he has a new version of SOBT out. This only came out a few weeks ago. I highly recommend it. Give it a chance and really perform the exercises it suggests. This book will give you a better understanding of what is really going on and it is a far cry from the book you read.

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Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by avalinah » December 3rd, 2011, 11:56 am

on your previous post.
By saying to yourself that maybe the phase is not for you and that your brain is different is simply giving yourself the excuse as to why you can't seem to get it and it only turns into a vicious cycle. The problem here is giving up and believe that a mere "dry period" means that you are no longer capable. Tell yourself that, if you have done it once then you can do it again. As long as you can experience being awake and dreaming, then you can experience the phase (OOBE/AP/LD). It is simply being awake in the dream. Anyone can do it. Don't set yourself barriers.
you're saying i'm not trying hard enough? cause usually, the harder i try, the less results i get, which is strange.
Also, I work with Michael Raduga and you will find that he has a new version of SOBT out.
where would i get this? because as i said i have not finished the book yet.. it would make a lot more sense just to read the new version then :p

Summerlander

Personality Traits that promote AP/OBE/LD -Ideas in Progress

Post by Summerlander » December 3rd, 2011, 12:11 pm

Yes, read the new version as it is improved. You will find it in the site. Just click on the book and you will get the new one instead of the old one.

By the way, it is not that you are not trying hard enough. It has a lot to do with approach and, as you said, the confidence. The thoughts in your head that say "maybe I'm not cut out for this..." - get rid of them!

Take a relaxed approach when you try. Be unconcerned. You can try three times a week and don't worry so much about being successful. Do what you have to and if you fail, then there is always a next time. Do not get all riled up. Do what works best for you! The trouble with our minds is that the slightest doubt that manifests within is enough to make any effort null, and too much of it is superfluous.

I hope I'm getting across what I am trying to say here. Let me know how it works out for you.

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